If you haven’t yet learned this about me, I love music. Whether it’s my friend Joey Ryan, rappers like Chamillionaire, Wale, or Gift of Gab, or a newfound (though not new by any means) artist like Colin Hay, I can't really put into words how huge a role music plays in my life. P.S. - Mr. Hay is the former lead singer of this wonderful band (which I love…and I am begging you to click that link...I promise it’s worth it).
Anyway, as I was buying the Colin Hay CD Going Somewhere (which features the song “Just Don’t Think I’ll Ever Get Over You" from the Garden State soundtrack...if any of you like that CD), I realized that I had to purchase another CD while I was at Best Buy. The interesting thing about that is the fact that said CD is one that I’ve owned since I was a junior in high school. Why was I buying it? Because, until yesterday, I had only owned burned copies of the album, and I figured it was about time The Postal Service received its due.
That’s right…after six years, I finally bought Give Up by The Postal Service for its full price at Best Buy. For some reason, I had gone over 2,000 days without spending the money on it because I kept telling myself it didn’t matter all that much. They were fine, tons of other people had bought the CD, and they don’t need the money or anything (by “they” I mean the two members of The Postal Service – Ben Gibbard and Jimmy Tamborello).
And while I never had a problem with friends who were menaces to the music industry with mp3 downloading dominance, it was my friendship with the aforementioned Joey Ryan that made me reconsider my stance on their freedom to download anything they could. I realized (as Joey worked hard to put on good music shows and sell his very, very good CDs), that he definitely didn’t deserve to have his hard work carelessly copied and burned without regard to the financial restitution he deserved.
-There's Joey, trying to earn a living...
And while I never heard him complain about people burning his CDs, I realized that other artists deserved to receive their compensation for pleasing my ears and mind with their music. Consequently, since my change of heart regarding my friends' downloading habits, I’ve worked hard to buy CDs (in their expensive entirety) because that’s what the artists deserve. Sometimes, when I’m not sure if I’ll like the music, I buy used ones off of Amazon or from Last Stop CD Shop here in Sioux Falls, but when I feel compelled to purchase a new album, I do it. And I occasionally buy a single or two off of iTunes, but it’s a rarity.
So…do I spend way too much money on CDs? Yes. But considering that I’ve probably listened to Give Up more than any other CD I own (besides the Garden State soundtrack…and Big Willie Style), it’s only fair that I finally fork over the $13.00 that I’ve mooched off of The Postal Service for six years. And while the inspiration to finally spend the money on it may have come from the fact that my burned copy was skipping like crazy, the fact of the matter is that I feel good knowing I’m supporting a duo that has made my life better with its music.
I don’t want to come off as preachy (which I’m pretty sure I do), because it’s anyone’s prerogative to do what they want with music. I just know that having a friend who intends to make a living off of music has changed my perspective on the ethics of the music industry.
My final thoughts are these…if you are thinking about burning a CD or downloading some songs illegally, just ask yourself if maybe, just maybe, the artist might deserve a little bit more than to get screwed yet again. If that’s the case, buy the CD the right way and then come comment on this blog and let me know which CD you bought (unless you buy this). If it's good, I just might have to buy a copy of it too. Or I’ll burn it and then pay for it six years later.
When…you are out there on the road, for several weeks of shows…and when you scan the radio, I hope this song will guide you home…
23 comments:
I heart Postal Service and Deathcab.
I'm ashamed to say that I haven't purchased this album, yet, either. If they would just come out with another one, then I would buy that in a heart beat, and probably from Amazon MP3.
Nice pick, by-the-by.
I wouldn't be ashamed Miles. I'm by no means high and mighty in this regard. I still own plenty of CDs from my youth that I haven't paid for, but this was just one that, after listening to it probably over 200 times (and I doubt that's an exaggeration because for about a full year it was the only thing I could listen to while I studied), I figured it was time to buy.
I hope they come out with another one too. Part of me has the fear of Dumb and Dumberer, but my instincts say they would not, in any conceivable way, tarnish "Give Up" by making another CD.
Mike- If I'm curt, then I apologize. Do you have a intense infatuation with Joey Ryan?
Sort of, anonymous.
The truth is I just like making sure people know who he is because I genuinely think he's talented and I carry this notion that by some bizarre, offhand chance someone in the music industry might see him/hear him as a result of this blog (not that I'm in any way assuming that many people read this blog at all in the first place) and think he's talented enough to give a closer listen. Sort of like Wayne's plan at the end of Wayne's World.
On the subject of an "intense infatuation," I would say it's probably not that intense. I mention him frequently in my posts but that, again, is due to the above-mentioned paragraph. I don't sit at my desk while I'm working and think about him for hours on end or listen to his music on repeat for weeks at a time if that's what you mean.
Another reason I talk about Joey so much is because, other than my friend Nick Jackson, I don't have a ton of musically-inclined/talented friends, and, as I've sort of mentioned a few times before, I'm deeply infatuated with music itself in all forms. Consequently, when I want to speak about music with a personal element to it, Joey is one of the few people I can refer to as someone who plays music for a living.
I don't mind the "curtness" of your comment at all though. I actually had a similar comment from a friend of mine a few weeks ago (although it was much more insulting and derogatory...which is fine, because that's how he is anyway). If you're implying that I have some type of crush on Joey though, then, to curtly respond, no I don't. It's strictly friendship and respect that I harbor for my musician friend.
Thanks for asking though. I hope you can keep coming back and checking out the blog. Although I can't guarantee that I won't mention Joey again a time or two.
ntomMike- First, I checked out Joey Ryan's music and, to my surprise, I really enjoyed his music. He is a talented indivudual and, in my opinion, has a very unique sound. God willing (or,if you know spanish, ojalá), he will be able to have success someday.
Second, with respect to the other content in your blog, I do not understand, with all due respect, how you can enjoy contemporary rap. It boggles my mind how an educated person like yourself can like this stuff. Contemporary rap should not be considered music. It brings me sorrow to see comtempomary rappers sing about drugs, violence, and sex. They profile women as objects rather than humans beings. The thing that hurts me the most, though, is young kids iodolize these rappers and, in many cases, these kids do not have the parental support to tell them right and wrong. Most of the time this lack of parental support is in the african-american community. These young african-american kids idolize rappers like chamillionare, Nas and Cameron (i've got beef with this rapper) in lieu of other talented black musicians like B.B King, Robert Cray or Miles Davis. It would be euphoric, if I were to go to a african-american community and hear blues music blasting rather than the odious music of Cameron. I know parents should control what their kids listen to, however, as I said before many times this parental control is not present. I deeply admire senator Obama for talking about the contentious subject of self-reliance in the african-american community. In addition, I would like him to talk about the desructive nature of contemporary rap.
Finally, Mike, I do not mean to pry in your personal business but how can you like music on different ends of the spectrum? It's like being a communist and a facist, it just doesn't make sense. One musician sings about love and compassion and the other one sings about "riding dirty" and doing drugs?
Shalom
P.S. I apologize for the verbosity in my recent post, but this subject really irritates me.
Shalom
First of all, I'm very glad you enjoy Joey's music and his sound. Ojalá que él pueda tener éxito en el futuro también.
On the next issue, I'll start with this as a preface:
Anything I say within this comment is in no way meant to sound insulting or rude, so if it comes off that way, please don't take it as such. I just feel strongly on this issue (and could probably dedicate a whole post to this discussion...in fact, I probably will if nobody minds).
The way I can enjoy contemporary rap is that I don't listen to mainstream contemporary rap. If you check out the links to the rappers' MySpace pages I've linked to and genuinely take the time to listen to the music itself, you'll find that both of the rappers listed are very socially-conscious rappers. Actually, I'd go here to listen to some of Chamillionaire's better stuff: http://tinyurl.com/6lzrpp (I recommend The Morning News and The Evening News as tracks to listen to). I choose not to listen to rappers like Lil Wayne or Cam'ron (who is actually very, very different from Chamillionaire as a rapper in terms of content and message).
Taking Chamillionaire first (who is my all time favorite rapper), I'll explain this. On his last CD, "Ultimate Victory," Chamillionaire actually chose not to swear in any way on his album. Period. He doesn't use the N-word, he doesn't use any derogatory terms for women or anything. His reasoning? Go ahead and open up this link (or copy and paste if it doesn't work) and you'll understand why. His words explain it better than mine can: http://tinyurl.com/chamillionairelink. Also, check out his MySpace page and scroll down to his "bio" section. There's a great, great explanation there that I would paste but it would make this extremely long comment even longer.
To further explain on the "Ridin' Dirty" song, it is actually a social commentary on Racial Profiling in Houston, which is a major, major issue for the African-American community in the area. The song isn't about how he himself is "riding dirty," but rather how the police officers in Houston are racially profiling African-American drivers. (Krayzie Bone's verse, however, does imply that he's using drugs, but his verse highlights the other side of the spectrum as to why the police are trying to catch these people). Regardless, Chamillionaire isn't promoting it and if you read/listen to the lyrics, you'll understand what I mean (and what he means). Also, I don't believe Chamillionaire raps about "doing drugs." He may rap about others that do drugs, but Chamillionaire has actually said in numerous songs that he doesn't "smoke weed" or do other illicit drugs.
In regard to the other rapper, Wale, take this song for example of his latest mixtape. It's a song that relates the importance of why the N-word continues to exist when it shouldn't: http://tinyurl.com/thekramer. I don't know if you'll enjoy the song, but you may understand the reason I enjoy the music and lyrics that these talented individuals produce.
On the final section of your comment, I can say that I don't mind you prying into my personal life at all. If I didn't want people to do that, I would not have put that type of information in a public forum like this blog. I appreciate your desire to know more about me. The truth is, I enjoy music of all types, be it rap music, classic rock, country, lighter-type rock (such as Joey Ryan or Matt Nathanson), R&B, Disney, and more. I simply appreciate good music as good music, and I feel that most of the rappers I choose to listen to create "good music." As I mentioned before, I choose not to listen to rappers like Lil Wayne because I genuinely feel that he adds nothing of substance to either the rap industry or the world in general. The same goes for 50 Cent or any other "mainstream" rapper. I like the guys I mentioned above for the reasons I mentioned above. Hopefully, taking a closer look at them has opened up the discussion as to what qualifies as good music and what gets lumped in with all of the other garbage that rappers release. I don't classify mainstream artists like Eric Clapton or John Mayer in the same genre of rock as Slipknot or KORN, but that tends to be the type of misfortune that befalls socially-conscious/intelligent rappers.
Hopefully this comment makes sense. I would sincerely hope (and ask) that you actually check out the links I've included in this so you can see firsthand what I'm talking about (hopefully they all work). I also hope I didn't offend you by asking you to listen to these songs. I just think they demonstrate my point well and emphasize that not all rappers deserve a bad name as a result of the untalented rappers that make tons of money in the mainstream music industry.
Drat. They didn't work. But if you take the time to copy and paste them into your URL bar, you can still view them.
Also, as one last side note, the song "Ridin'" came from Chamillionaire's first major-label CD "The Sound of Revenge." He didn't decide to avoid profanity until his most recent CD. I can, however, add that out of the 9 Chamillionaire CDs I own, I have never heard him once use (in all of this elementary-school level of description) the F-word, the B-word, or the SH-word. Although now I feel like a seven year old, I feel like it is applicable to this discussion.
Mike-
First off, I would like to say that I respect what you have to say about main stream rappers. However, how can you not throw Chamillionaire in that group as well? I happen to find a lot of rap music to be offensive and degrading and Chamillionaire is not as bad as say Eminem, Fifty Cent, Lil Wayne etc. but he still has offensive lyrics. One of his hits that comes to mind is his song "turn it up" in which he does use the N-word...In this particular phrase especially.
"Niggaz talk shit untill I let that nine bang"
Now I'm pretty sure he's saying that people may talk mean to him until they see him bring out a gun and start shooting. What type of a message do you think that sends to teenagers (especially ones that do not have role models or father figures in the house)? Rap music is THE cause to why African American violence is getting out of control (and if you disagree with the fact that it is out of control you need to do your research).
I know you think that he's a "good" rapper and sends a good message but what type of message is he sending with that?
I hope you dont mind me continuing to use this song but I've heard it alot and I'm reading the lyrics right now just to support my argument. Again he says "Which one of y'all am I gone take home"
This is just degrading to women because it makes them feel like that is their only purpose in life and that it's not up to them as to what happens at the end of the night; it's the man's decision because they are merely objects. Not to mention this is extremely arrogant and boastful for him to say something like that, implying that the only thing he has to worry about is which woman he wants to sleep with at the end of the night.
So, Mike, again, I respect what you're saying about the mainstream rappers but you must include Chamillionaire in that group too and do not disregard him or look at him in a different light because you happen to like him. He is just as guilty as the others in the increased violence and the degrading of women in our society. Both of these things have been deemed "cool" because of rappers.
Anonymous-
Just to make sure we're clear on your first point, Chamillionaire is actually not the rapper that uses the lyric to which you were referring in "Turn It Up." That is actually guest rapper and fellow Houstonion Lil' Flip who uses that lyric. However, that doesn't justify the fact that the lyric exists on the song, which IS on Chamillionaire's CD.
As I mentioned in the P.S. type of comment, Chamillionaire didn't decide to change his content and message until his latest CD, "Ultimate Victory." As he states in the MySpace bio:
"Behind the scenes, a lot of artists talk about everything that they think is wrong with the world, but when it comes time to address the issues through their music, they don't," he explains. "I decided I couldn't sit back and needed to be the one to say something."
Yet while touring the world to promote his November 2005 released debut album, “The Sound of Revenge,” Chamillionaire saw one negative consequence of performing to diverse audiences. Each time he said the N-word in any of his songs, many of his white fans would rap along with him.
"It made me say to myself, 'OK, I'm going to have to do this run again and I don't want to be subliminally teaching people to say it," Chamillionaire says. That's why I made the decision at the beginning stages of “The Ultimate Victory” to erase it from my vocabulary, long before the Don Imus controversy even started brewing."
Now, I'm not naive enough to assume that he is changing the world or anything with his music, but I think the fact that he's making a very concentrated and pointed effort to do so speaks highly of his character and his ability to produce an amazing record with no swearing whatsoever. In regard to the issue to begin this comment (Lil' Flip's use of profanity and violence), Chamillionaire actually chose to edit the verses of rappers that guest-appear on "Ultimate Victory" so that there is no swearing on the album itself anywhere. This is the only version of the album that was released. There was no "Uncut" version or "Unedited" version to be purchased anywhere(which actually got him openly mocked by rappers such as 50 Cent).
For me to agree that one and only one specific issue in the African-American community is the cause of violence, I would need to see a substantial amount of research beyond studies that show a slight correlation between the two. I feel there are many, many more facets of this trend that would need to be considered, researched, and reviewed as well before saying it's "THE" cause of violence in these communities. However, not being someone who has grown up in those communities and not being someone that has conducted or read extensive research on the subject, I'm not going to say whether I agree or disagree, but if you have research or statistics I would be happy to look into them further. As Socrates put it, "I am only wise because I do not claim to know that which I do not know." I think that applies to this portion of the discussion for me personally.
Finally, I will easily concede that Chamillionaire does use women in a derogatory way. I won't justify it at something that is right or something that is ok, and I won't use other means to justify it either, such as comparisons to other rappers or genres. I would just say that it relates back to your previous comment that parents need to be monitoring what their children listen to. If they don't feel their children can distinguish between the appropriate way to respect women and not treat them as objects, then they shouldn't let their children listen to Chamillionaire. If you'd like to call that a cop-out or something similar, I understand and accept that opinion, but that's how I feel. He does it, I'll admit it, and I'll say that it doesn't make him any "better" than any other rappers out there.
In regard to using his past choices and actions to classify him now, I would say that plenty of human beings have made past decisions that might not reflect on them positively in the present, but the fact that he is truly trying to change how things are in the rap industry makes a difference and matters now, regardless as to his past. From Biblical times to the present, people have changed their ways and reformed how they handle their lives, so to hold him to what happened in the past is understandable, but in my opinion, relatively unfair.
Regardless, I do like him and that will (and does) ultimately affect my decision to use him as a representation of what I feel is a positive light in the rap industry. I can concede that he has his flaws and he may not be the perfect, positively-messaged rapper that I made him out to be in my initial response, but I guess that is where our opinions diverge.
Shalom Mike-
I appreciate your solemn concern for this subject matter, however, I still can not look at this rapper, Chamillonare, in a "positive light."
I decided to do some research on this individual, and although I do not claim to know as much as you, I did find some disturbing information.
Chamillionare is the CEO, that is Chief Executive Officer, of the record label Chamillitary (correct me if the spelling is wrong) and this record label supports many rappers that are mainstream. On his album "The Sound of Revenge" included the rappers little wayne and rasaq. I have empirical evidence that these two aforementioned rappers have said heinous things concerning women and violence. I would rather not repeat the words of this little wayne person because I find them too disturbing. However, if you request the evidence I will comply.
Currently, Chamillionare may not sing about these issues. HOWEVER, he does support these rappers financially and I opine this is just as bad, if not worse, than singing these lyrics.
To say that Chamillionare does not have any influence, and should not be responsible for his subordinates music is absurd. It is like saying Kenneth Lay should not be held responsible for the collapse of Enron when, in fact, he was the CEO and was aware of the wrongdoings. CEOs of companies should be held responsible for what happens in the company and that includes Chamillionare.
"It takes a village to raise a child." This is an African Proverb. It saddens me when, in some cases, this "village" which is raising the child is the mainstream rap community. I think it is common sense to say the people who support these heinous rappers are white suburban men. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Anonymous -
I appreciate you looking further into the matter and doing the research. However, I will also have to disagree with some of it.
While I'm aware the Chamillionaire is the CEO of Chamillitary, Chamillionaire is the only "mainstream" artist signed to the actual label.
Lil' Wayne, who is arguably one of the top three rappers in the mainstream rap industry, is not on the Chamillitary label, he has merely appeared on both of Chamillionaire's major-label CDs. However, in the second CD, Ultimate Victory, Lil Wayne's verse is edited just like the other verses of every rapper on the artist. Regardless, he is certainly not "supported" by the Chamillitary label as, I can assure you, he isn't signed to the label. Yes, he was obviously paid to appear on the albums, but that does not mean he is a part of the record label of which Chamillionaire is the CEO. If you take a look at Chamillitary's list of artists who are signed to the label, you'll find that none of them besides Chamillionaire could be considered "mainstream."
There's no need to present the evidence of the lyrical content of "The Sound of Revenge" as I am aware of the album's content. I've already stated, however, that I understand this album contains material that isn't what some consider appropriate (or, as you worded it, "disturbing"). The point I'm emphasizing and have stated in both of my last two posts is that you are referring to an album that is now three years old and does not fully represent that which Chamillionaire is trying to do with his music. You are only presenting evidence of your point based on old material and I'm presenting you with evidence from a much more recent source.
Chamillionaire has shown that he is making an effort to change his past practices in the music industry. I hope that at this point you have taken the time to examine those changes in his style and content. If not, then I feel like this discussion won't move past "The Sound of Revenge." While I'm not trying to say that it should be discarded, I think it is unfair to only pick at the part of Chamillionaire's career that does support your argument. I'm showing you contradictory evidence to what you are telling me and I feel as though you have yet to acknowledge this evidence.
You make this statement:
"To say that Chamillionaire does not have any influence, and should not be responsible for his subordinates music is absurd."
as though I have argued otherwise, and I do not feel like I have. I never stated that Chamillionaire "does not have any influence." I will willingly concede that he certainly does. I just feel that he is making a change to have a more positive influence than negative. Clearly, you disagree, and I can accept that. However, I would be more willing to continue this discussion if you can give me more solid proof that, since "The Sound of Revenge," Chamillionaire hasn't shown he has tried to make an improvement on the situation regarding the negativity of mainstream rap music.
I am looking at his entire career, not one specific album that does not currently reflect his state of mind. As I quoted in the previously posted comment, he realized what that album contained and, after the album, chose to make a change. Here is that quote again:
"Yet while touring the world to promote his November 2005 released debut album, “The Sound of Revenge,” Chamillionaire saw one negative consequence of performing to diverse audiences. Each time he said the N-word in any of his songs, many of his white fans would rap along with him.
"It made me say to myself, 'OK, I'm going to have to do this run again and I don't want to be subliminally teaching people to say it," Chamillionaire says. That's why I made the decision at the beginning stages of “The Ultimate Victory” to erase it from my vocabulary, long before the Don Imus controversy even started brewing."
While this quote deals specifically with the N-word, the quote that came before that in my comment explains his stance on the entire genre and his music specifically:
"Behind the scenes, a lot of artists talk about everything that they think is wrong with the world, but when it comes time to address the issues through their music, they don't," he explains. "I decided I couldn't sit back and needed to be the one to say something."
This was AFTER the album to which you continue to refer. Again, I know the album itself can't be disregarded as a factual explanation to your opinion, and I'm not asking you to change your opinion, but clearly he has made an attempt to change his style and his content since said album, and that shows in his most recent record, "Ultimate Victory."
I also feel as though I am strictly defending Chamillionaire. The original premise of the comments that started this discussion is that I enjoy his music and I can respect it because, in my opinion, it's "good music." We obviously disagree on the weight of the negative aspects of Chamillionaire's content. I feel as though we will continue to disagree on the matter, which is understandable. I'm not trying to say he's a saint, but I feel like he's doing his part to make things better.
In regarded to your "white, suburban men" comment, I would simply like to say this: I don't know how they are entirely to blame if "it takes a village to raise a child." Clearly, more people than them have to be involved in that equation. I'm not defending them, but I feel as though that paragraph is contradictory in itself. If that's how you feel on the issue, then they are not the only people that need to be ashamed of themselves and I don't feel it is "common sense" to say they are the cause of this. While they can certainly be one facet of those who deserve the shame you speak of, to blame them entirely as the sole cause is unjustified, especially if it takes a village...
Shalom Mike:
Thank you for your response. I have seen, from your evidence, Chamillionare is changing his lyrics and I think it is a very honorable thing for him to do. However, it is not enough.
Chamillionare may be changing his "lifestyle," but he still appeases the "lifestyles" of his fellow rappers. From the evidence presented, I have not seen him repudiate other rappers for using vial lyrics. I would have the utmost respect for Chamillionare, if he were to flat out repudiate the whole rap industry. He should curtly say, "this is not right, it is destroying the value systems of our children." To my knowledge he has never done this.
I think he is a phony for appeasing these other rappers. Mike, appeasing is a dangerous business. In 1940, Britain's leader, Neville Chamberlain appeased Hitler. He did nothing while Hitler took three countries with no retaliation and rounded up millions of Jews and placed them in ghettos. He was a coward, just like Chamillionare. It took stalwart man, Winston Churchill, to fight back and to stand up to Hitler. So far, I have not seen anyone in the rap industry that resembles Churchill (arguably the greatest man that ever lived).
Chamillonare may be changing his lyrics but I opine that is not enough, he must do more for the sake of our children.
Anonymous -
I appreciate your willingness to look into my side of the argument further and I respect your knowledge of history, but I feel like we are currently discussing two different arguments at the moment.
In terms of the rap music genre itself, I feel Chamillionaire is trying to make a difference. From the consistency of your comments, I’m inclined to believe you don’t feel like rap music is a valid form of musical expression period, due to its (in your opinion) detrimental effects on society.
My question to you becomes, what music do you consider to be appropriate for people in this current state of society? Clearly you have major issues with rap music, which is acceptable, but which music is a valid form of musical expression that IN NO WAY has detrimental effects or specific lyrics that can be singled out as problem-causing in society?
I don’t believe the burden falls on Chamillionaire to “repudiate the whole rap industry,” and if Chamillionaire is doing what he feels is the best he can be doing, then I respect him for that. I don’t feel the burden falls strictly on the rap artist to change a nation’s problems.
Also, I’d like you to keep this in mind. You refer to historical figures like Winston Churchill, yet you forget to take into account that Churchill was a VERY well-known and well-respected figure both in the military and in politics. While he had at times offended people and upset people, he was nonetheless a very influential individual before he was ever able to take the stand you refer to.
Can you honestly tell me that, with only a very, very few number of years of any experience whatsoever, Churchill would have had the respect and power from both his peers and his followers to make the kind of bold and strong-willed decisions he made?
My guess is, if Churchill had only served a few years in the military or in politics (as Chamillionaire has only released two CDs in an industry where most mainstream rappers have released 3-10 CDs over their entire careers), very few people would have respected his ideals and opinions, and I highly doubt King George VI and the other governmental leaders would have agreed to put Churchill in charge of the entire nation, specifically as someone in the “sophomore” stage of his career. I don’t know that it equates in terms of politics and the military, but there is clearly a major disparity between the two.
You are comparing men at two entirely different points in their careers and I feel that is a very, very unjust accusation to state that Chamillionaire is a “coward” and a “phony.” Do you think that Churchill could have done what he did in his “wilderness years” when he was writing a biography and not even serving a political office? I firmly believe that Churchill was able to lead a nation because he had earned the respect and garnered year upon year of service to his nation.
Could Chamillionaire, in a few years, have the ability to have that effect on the rap industry? Possibly, but for now he is still building his career, much like your esteemed Winston Churchill had to do before he could have ever been able to take a stand against Hitler.
Keep in mind that I am in no way discounting what Winston Churchill did for his nation and the world, but he was in a position to do those things at the right time. I feel it may be more appropriate to judge Chamillionaire at a later time in his career when he has earned similar status and respect from the world.
Mike-
Sorry but I am just having a hard time with your view of Chamillionaire, and I obviously have very strong feelings on this subject. I understand that you think he is a notch above most other rappers because of his "attempts" to be "better."
However, if one were to commit a heinous crime, he or she would be considered a criminal. Now, if he or she were to "attempt" to be "better" by committing less severe crimes, does that necessarily make him or her a "better" person? In my opinion, wrong is wrong, and just because Chamillionaire is speaking out and saying he's going to make a difference by not using the N-word etc. doesn't mean that he's gonna be a benefit to society. Therefore, if he's not rapping and representing positive influences for society then, Mike, he still is guilty. Consider this analogy:
Chamillionaire may not be committing armed robbery at a bank anymore but he has decided to be less detrimental to society by committing the less severe act of stealing from peoples' houses.
Does that make him a better person? Not to mention it's not too difficult to be the bright and shining star in the rap world when considering the lyrics and messages that almost all of rappers use.
Furthermore, you spoke of Chamillionaire basically not having enough credibility at this point in his carrer with this quotation.
"I feel it may be more appropriate to judge Chamillionaire at a later time in his career when he has earned similar status and respect from the world."
If Chamillionaire wanted to stand out completely and repudiate other rappers he could have by now. He has plenty of credibility and respect from society; just look at how much you respect and admire him. Martin Luther King Jr. did not have to wait until a specific time in his life to speak out against what he thought and knew was right; he disregarded society's absurd laws and spoke out against slavery. He, my friend, demanded equality in a time of utter chaos.
Now I know one cannot begin to compare anyone to one of the greatest influencers and people of all time. However, as a talented rapper and a well-known public figure, Chamillionaire has earned the respect and credibility that he needs to make a difference in this world, yet he has simply chose to no longer commit "armed robbery" because "stealing" is less severe. He, along with all other public figures (athletes, celbrities) has the power to make change.
I mention rappers as having the responsibility to change because it is not athletes or celebrities that are affecting this world negatively. You would have to agree that if there were one group that has both the powerful and negative influence on society it has to be the rappers. Rap artists in today's world, as I heard on a TV news station probably a month ago, (I know it's not great proof but you can take my word on this because I have no reason to lie in this case) rap artists have as much or even more influence over young children in today's world as athletes! Hence, video games featuring 50 cent.
Mike, do we want a detrimental group (the rap artists)or even a questionable group of people (the rap artists) to be the ones leading and influencing our children???
Rap has become hot, the hip hop, bad boy image has taken off, and crime rates have soared.
Shalom Mike
Mike-
אפולוגיז, עפולוגיז,
(I apologize) I did not answer your question from your previous response.
First, there is a vast array of music that does not have "detrimental effects on society." For example, the Piyyut, Zemirot, Nigun, Pizmonin, etc. are all types of religious Jewish music that have an extraordinary effect on society. The music relays the message of good works and the importance of Yahweh in one's life. Mike, I do not know if you are a religious man, but I would recommend this music over rap. I assume you are a white, suburban christian, try listening to christian music (correct me if I am wrong). I believe it is insightful and it always teaches a pious message. On the contrary, what does rap teach? I think I have answered that in my previous postings.
Second, on the subject of Sir Winston Churchill. I believe it is an innate trait, one is either born an appeaser or stalwart. Mike, Winston Churchill was born stalwart and he was like that his WHOLE life. He once said "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocidile--hoping it will eat him last." He proclaimed these words long before Hitler would rise to power. EXPERIENCE had nothing to do with his stalwart nature, it was an innate trait. On the contrary, rappers like Chamillionare are cowards and will not repudiate others for what they believe in. It does not matter his experience, what matters is his will to stand up for what he believes. I will leave you with a quote that exemplifies Churchill persistant nature:
"Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fall, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth lasts for a thousand years, men will still say, This was their finest hour!"
פרייס טו יהרף, פרייש טו יהרף
(Praise be to Yahweh for Winston Churchill)
Shalom Mike
Anonymous –
It has become quote obvious that you have no respect for rap music or the rap genre, which is absolutely your choice and your opinion. Clearly you see Chamillionaire as a coward, and my words won’t change that opinion or belief. As you stated in your first of the last two posts, you are comparing Chamillionaire to one of the greatest influencers and people of all time (I would contend that you’re comparing him to two of them), but the fact of the matter is that you clearly view rap music with a negative opinion, regardless as to who is rapping about it.
If you feel that Chamillionaire should be doing more to change the rap industry, then that is your belief and your prerogative. I, on the other hand, feel that this change won’t come from one person overnight. You are asking someone to entirely change a genre that has now rooted itself in society for over 20 years. To that extent, I think you will find there is no ONE person that can solve this problem. If there is, he or she has yet to be brought to my attention.
Consequently, my personal opinion is that Chamillionaire does do more to make a change than most, but you are choosing to completely disregard that and only acknowledge any negativity he may be a part of. You speak of the extensive dilemmas facing the youth of America as though they can be solved as easily as flipping a switch.
As you worded it: “I mention rappers as having the responsibility to change because it is not athletes or celebrities that are affecting this world negatively.”
I completely and entirely disagree with that statement and view it as somewhat close-minded. If you can tell me that tabloid celebrities who participate in VERY public displays of drunkenness and illicit activities are in no way influencing our America’s youth in a negative way, then I feel like you have a personal agenda solely against rap music and are therefore choosing not to acknowledge other societal elements that may factor into the equation. The same can be said of professional athletes, who can commit violent crimes and get arrested for drug use and still sign multi-million dollar sports contracts and live a life that continues to provide them the opportunity to commit the crimes for which they are being arrested. If that doesn’t send a negative message to America’s youth, how is rap music different when rappers are simply rapping about it, not even being proven to do it?
Continuing to place blame on ONE factor is illogical.
To me, that’s like stating that Stalin’s support of Hitler at the beginning of World War II would have had NO effect on the world had he chosen to fight against Hitler instead. Rap is not the ONLY element of popular culture that is detrimental to this nation and I would not “have to agree” that rappers are the only group powerful enough to have a negative influence on society.
Do I want a detrimental group (“the rap artists” as you word it) leading and influencing my children? No, I don’t want ANY detrimental group, rap artist or not, leading my children. And if rappers comprise the only detrimental group of people in our society, then clearly you and I are living in two entirely different worlds. It seems to me your solution is to ban all rap music. If that’s your opinion on the matter, then that’s your opinion. I, on the other hand, find the good qualities in rap music (and all music I consider to be “good music”) and I doubt I’ll be able to agree with you on your stance regarding rap music as an art form and as a form of musical self-expression.
In regard to Churchill again, I would say that those are excellent quotes and clearly he has led a life of standing up for what he believes in. I respect the steps Chamillionaire is taking to change his message, whether or not you agree with him or consider it not to be enough. For your sake, I would hope that someone in the near future can come and be the Winston Churchill of rap music you are clearly hoping for. However, I feel that, until that happens, more people like Chamillionaire are making the rap industry better than its current state. Rap music won’t stop tomorrow and won’t pull a 180 tomorrow, so right now the next best solution is people doing their part to make a change in whatever way they are willing to and able to make.
For the record, I feel like this discussion has led me to compromise my initial stance on rap music, which is not something I want this discussion to result in. I never felt Chamillionaire was “wrong” in the same regard you do. I feel that, from my youth into my very young adulthood, I have been able to distinguish between right and wrong, regardless of a song’s message. I’m simply stating that I respect what he is trying to do by being a more socially-conscious rap artist, not that I disagree with his past music. I stated that he is socially-conscious in the rap industry, and I believe that. Apparently, being socially-conscious in the rap industry is still not enough to appease your frustrations with the genre, but it is enough to show me that it can begin to change.
Finally, as much as I disagree with your decision to make those assumptions about me, they are nonetheless correct. I’ve listened to extensive amounts of Christian music in my life and see the good qualities it possesses. However, if Jewish and Christian music are the only types that don’t have “detrimental effects on society,” then we clearly have a long way to go before music in the world isn’t detrimental in any way. As much as I respect any type of music, there are places and groups of people in this nation that will not be listening to it, regardless of its positive qualities.
So, which has the greater chance of making a change and influencing our youth – a rapper willing to start making an effort to change the current state of a genre that the youth of America readily listen to in mass amounts, or a type of music that may be full of redeeming and positive qualities that will be listened to by a much smaller audience?
I feel that both are justifiable, but I only feel that one is genuinely, and not idealistically, realistic. That may be a negative way to view it in your opinion, but, to put it curtly, it has become clear to me that we won’t be seeing eye to eye on the issue. If that changes your view of me as a writer or an intellectual thinker then that’s unfortunate, but I also won’t apologize for my opinion on the matter.
Mike-
I too am sorry that you still cannot understand my stance...
Please tell me if you disagree with this statement because if you do, in my opinion you don't have a good feel for inner city life in today's world.
Unfortunately, it has become "cool" in today's society, more so than it was years ago, to be a "bad a**".
You stated that we might be living in different worlds; and I apologize for guessing your culture correctly, however, it is apparent to me that you don't have a true understanding of the backgrounds that MANY black children grow up in. I know this sounds offensive but it is the flat out truth that many black children start out life at a disadvantage. If they lack a father figure or role model, they are subconsciously looking for one. If you've ever been around children growing up you will know what I mean; it's natural.
Therefore, the role models end up being sports athletes and rappers especially because they can relate to their backgrounds the most. Rappers even more so because they are constantly rapping about their everyday lives. With sports heroes and celebrities it is no where near as violent...so once in a while you hear dumb stuff that Britney Spears is doing or Adam Pacman Jones is breaking the law at a stripclub again, but in general when you think sports you think of Tiger, Peyton Manning, Kobe, Lebron which are all POSITIVE role models. Granted there are going to be knuckleheads in every group but in the sports world there might be like 2% of them that are detrimental. When you think of rappers you see Fifty Cent, TI, Chamillionaire, etc. which in general are more negative of influences because they rap dirty things. The percentage of detrimental rappers to society is much higher.
I dont see how you can disagree with that.
Now, I know you have proven to me that YOU understand and can separate right from wrong and that you understand that music is music and that the rappers are often times telling stories about their difficult lives. You are mature enough and intelligent enough to see that. For a young and developing inner city child who does not have a father or male figure to turn to and has violence all around him or her, it is natural to idolize rappers. Chamillionaire, although he has made an effort to change, still has not wanted to completely forego the "Bad" image because, as I stated before Mike, being "bad" in today's society is "cool." So why give up that image and risk not being able to make as many millions of dollars as he would like?
Mike, my friend, I hope this helps to explain my stance more directly.
Shalom
Anonymous –
It’s funny you would bring that up because I actually chose not to write about it in my last post. I had something written but changed my mind. However, now that it has been addressed specifically, I will present my side of your most recent response.
I spent 7th grade through my senior year of high school in College Station, Texas. While it is certainly not inner-city Harlem or downtown Houston, I was close friends with numerous African-Americans who certainly weren’t “well off” in the city.
I’m in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY (and I can’t emphasize that enough) trying to claim that I know what life is like for them or the experiences and struggles the dealt with growing up. But I know more than the average white suburban male would know, and I can say that with complete confidence. These were close, close friends of mine. I played sports with them, hung out with them, and have quite a few of their rap “mixtapes” in my possession (which are, consequently, full of derogatory language and themes).
I can assure you that I’m aware of the situation. I’m not the typically oblivious person who knows what I know about the African-American culture from rap music and television/movies. I haven’t lived their lives, but I lived a large portion of my formative years alongside them and can, with no qualms whatsoever, refer to them as my close friends.
That’s why I was somewhat off-put by your assumption and the weight it carried in regard to this conversation.
Moving along, I don’t believe I’ve once made the argument that I “disagree” with the statement that rap music has a detrimental effect on society’s youth. I’m acknowledging that it, in fact, does. However, I will disagree (and CAN disagree) that it is the ONLY problem that needs to be resolved if a change is going to be made. You cite the more “commonly thought of” athletes as positive role models and state that they are more well-known for positive deeds than athletes like Pacman Jones.
My question is this: How does a rapper become a positive role model? Peyton Manning doesn’t represent someone who comes from a difficult life situation. I would say that Tiger Woods didn’t either. Kobe Bryant lived in foreign countries and played basketball in Europe throughout his childhood, and Lebron James is a man who has been touted as someone who would become best basketball player in the country since he was 14, receiving massive amounts of media attention and opportunity that very few inner-city youth would ever receive. I don’t believe any of them grew up trying to survive on the streets and get out of a bad situation.
You talk about rappers rapping about their lives, and that’s obviously going to happen. It’s easy to expect the four people mentioned above to be role models when they HAD lives that would allow them to be positive role models and HAD positive role models growing up. They aren’t coming from the same backgrounds as rappers. Do you know who is coming from that type of background? Guys like Pacman Jones. So which rapper in the mainstream rap industry does or will have the ability to come from that situation and be a role model?
How many kids from the inner-city are running out to buy a bag of golf clubs and hit up the country club driving range so they can be the next Tiger Woods? Tiger may be a positive role model, but how much influence is he truly having on the actual youth that need positive role models? I’m sure many HAVE been positively influenced, but since Tiger’s been around, the crime rate hasn’t shrunk.
I understand this is the point you’re trying to make. You are saying that rap music has a bigger influence on kids than these athletes. My point is that these rappers have so much influence because it reflects these kids’ lives. Do you think a rapper would have as many fans if he were a rich rapper who grew up in Europe and then came to American and started rapping with a positive message? No. He may be a good role model, but he will in no way connect with the youth of America you refer to and will therefore not be able to influence them (or he’ll influence very, very few of them), no matter how positive he may be.
I’m struggling to see what solution you propose to solve this dilemma. Other than banning rap music entirely, do you have a plan for how to change the influence of rappers on these children? There are better examples of talented rappers who rap with a positive message if you cannot agree with Chamillionaire, but, for whatever reason one may like to use, they do not earn the respect of large audiences. For example, Gift of Gab from the rap group Blackalicious is one such rapper. He’s arguably the most talented “rap artist” in the genre, but lyrics like this from the song “Purest Love,” which are beautiful and inspiring, don’t captivate an audience the way mainstream rappers can:
"The two realest cats I know? My two older brothers
The most beautiful woman in the galaxy? My mother
The strongest black women raising kids alone? My sisters
The best part of my future is my present love interest
The most important time? Right now and ever after
The greatest expression is love, happiness, and laughter
See life is a book and this song is just another chapter
I'll stay down to earth and real if you speak I'll speak back
I'm not a preacher or a scholar I'm merely just a rapper
I probably don't fit in to the current state of -
- what you consider that to be So you ask how can I rap
if I ain't thugged out, pimpin, flossin my ice, packin a gat
Man if this is what I got, I want dough I can't lie
But never sell my soul 'n front inside mainstream's eyes
The purest love is how I'm driven, sent, and reach for my goals
If nothing else I'll leave the world some songs that speak from the soul"
This is how just about all of his songs are. He doesn’t rap about killing people, the only time he raps about drugs when he’s admonishing them, and he treats women with respect in his music. Yet, even his most popular selling CD, Blazing Arrow, has sold about 1/20th of the albums that mainstream rappers sell with each album they release (and that is, sadly, not an exaggeration at all).
I’m very well aware that almost this entire comment post directly supports your argument from the previous post. But I’m using this information to show you that I’m aware of the disparity between what the children of America need and what the children of America are getting.
My point is that, in looking at all this, it is obvious that the mainstream rappers are the ones who carry the most influence. While you admonish someone like Chamillionaire for the negative aspects of his content, I’m supporting his efforts to take the first step (however small or insignificant it may be in your eyes), to make a change. You, however, would prefer to classify him in the same group that does nothing to help bring about change.
My question to you then is this: If people making a concentrated effort to make a difference aren’t doing anything to change things (in your mind), who will and who can? Or is it simply, as I stated before, something that can only be solved by removing it entirely from our society?
It’s not that I don’t “understand your stance.” I fully understand the point you are making (as I hopefully demonstrated with this post). My point is that your stance doesn’t provide any reasonable solution to this problem. I feel as though you are merely pointing at it and saying it is a problem. I’d like to hear how you feel a change can be made if a rapper with the willingness to take the first step still isn’t enough.
Mike:
I believe I have discussed my solution in my other responses. My solution is quite simple; the rap industry needs an influential leader. As I stated before, this leader must be like Winston Churchill and stand up to the ubiquitous thought of mainstream rap.
As you stated in your response, you don't "believe the burden falls on Chamillionaire (to repuditate the whole rap industry)."
I recently read a book called "The True Believer." This book, which is written by Eric Hoffer, studies the underlying causes of Mass Movements (good ones or bad). For a Mass Movement to shift from it's "preliminary stage" to it's "active stage," it must have ONE influential leader. Mike, the Rap Industry NEEDS this leader. Chamillionare is starting to clean up his act. WHY NOT TAKE THE NEXT STEP? I believe if he takes this next step people will listen, and ultimately this will be advantageous for society.
Anonymous -
I'm going to continue enjoying Chamillionaire's music and respecting the efforts he is making. I hope, for your sake, either he or someone else can grow into the Winston Churchill-esque leader you'd like for someone to become in the rap industry.
I see where you're coming from, and I can agree that it would be advantageous to society. I can honestly say that I'm happy to support anyone who is able to step up and enlighten a dark situation with a positive message and true talent as a rapper.
Regardless, I won't discontinue my support of an artist like Chamillionaire because he's "not doing enough" as you would describe it. If that ends up being where we disagree, I understand. Regardless, I appreciate the discussion and your reverence for the topic and its importance in and to society.
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